|
Post by Scott Hays on Oct 4, 2005 9:06:48 GMT -5
In my haste to express chagrin at the idea that political, economic, and health issues related to water should be a "local issue", I forgot to point -- again -- to the increasing corporate control of "local" water supplies. California-American Water is a German company. It owns water companies all across this nation, and a significant amount of them. Local regulations (and local regulators) don't carry much weight or power in relation to a multi-national corporation with enormous financial resources. The checkerboard, often conflicting local regulations aimed at trying to control this beast are more of a hindrance than a solution to the problems it creates for fair pricing, adequate maintenance, security, cleanliness, equitible distribution practices and on and on and on ...
While I am a great proponent of local control (and grassroots, bottom-up politics ... or even musical appreciation), there are many issues that are too broad to be regulated and controlled by local authority. This was the primary lesson learned during the era of the Robber Barons, and why national regulatory agencies and commissions were established. As is the wont of corporations (see my previous post), their overriding goal is to WIN. They have persisted in their efforts to gain control of the regulatory agencies. They have succeeded in putting into power a group of zealots, driven by a fear of god (or any other "big daddy" with more power than they ... I always look to god in a metaphorical sense, not a literal), who are determined to undermine all regulatory control and essentially eliminate any power that government has to protect the American public (viewed only as "consumers" by the corporate mind) from that corporate avarice.
To misquote a famous line, "They're baaaack!"
No local government is going to take power from the corporate nazis. No one in this current administration is going to choose the rights of a poor person over the rights of a wealthy donor. The callousness with which this administration reacted to Katrina (by failing to react and underestimating its power) clearly illustrates this point. The point(s) I have been trying to make in this latest spate of outraged commentary is that this government will not stand up for the common man, case-by-case, when it comes to the interests of its corporate bosses.
By the way ... I used the term "nazi" intentionally (and didn't capitalize it, intentionally). We are rapidly becoming a corporate state so rigidly controlled that der Fuhrer would be impressed. We may not possess the racial madness that layered the Nazi regime, but when the President of the U.S. starts publicly floating the idea that maybe the MILITARY ought to be first responders to a local crisis ("er", says the mayor of town x that is trying to control some local rioting and/or looting caused by the vicious beating of a hispanic motorist, "but why are Green Beret's parachuting into the downtown area and arresting the citizens of my town?"), and you add this to the already creeping disappearance of rights and privileges because of another "crisis", it is time to open the eyes and start to take action. National Socialism, Volume II, is right around the corner, don't you know ... brought to us by the Christian Right, which always leads such holy movements!
|
|
BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
|
Post by BillL on Oct 4, 2005 10:36:30 GMT -5
but when the President of the U.S. starts publicly floating the idea that maybe the MILITARY ought to be first responders to a local crisis ("er", says the mayor of town x that is trying to control some local rioting and/or looting caused by the vicious beating of a hispanic motorist, "but why are Green Beret's parachuting into the downtown area and arresting the citizens of my town?"), and you add this to the already creeping disappearance of rights and privileges because of another "crisis", it is time to open the eyes and start to take action. National Socialism, Volume II, is right around the corner, don't you know ... brought to us by the Christian Right, which always leads such holy movements!
So I'm guessing that you agree with me that this administration (or any administration, for that matter) shouldn't have taken any heat for their efforts after Katrina? It's been my feeling that they took a bunch of crap for reacting in the way every administration has always reacted. Suddenly, I'm guessing it's because of the loathing of W, they didn't act quickly enough.
Scott, while I'm in partial agreement with many of your points throughout both threads, I can't help but think of the summary I heard about Animal Farm. It starts out that all are created equal. Then some pigs are more equal than others. I guess what I'm saying is that there is a double edged sword with decisions. Having my way I would obolish most of what the Fed Gov does. I would transfer all of that to the states (LOWER taxes on the federal level and by default raising taxes locally according to their needs). There would be both good and bad that could happen. What I think should be avoided is making exceptions. That's when you run into the proverbial pack of wolfs. Make a decision...stick to it...and with very minor exceptions, no exceptions. Now that I think of it, I hearby secede from the union and I'm declaring my home a soverign nation. No taxes, no drinking age, no rules...complete anarchy. I think I'll call it Billy World. Call first for reservations.
Bill L President of Billy World Head of Bureau of Tourism Sole proprietor of the lands only liquor cabinet Stocked with Belgian Beers !!!!!
|
|
BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
|
Post by BillL on Oct 4, 2005 10:41:50 GMT -5
brought to us by the Christian Right, which always leads such holy movements!
Why do you guys even bother with wackos like that? It's best to ignore them. They eventually go away. It worked for me with Micheal Moore. ; )
By the way, the wackos (or extremes from either party) should always be visable so we know just how crazy they are but in no way should they every be listened to...just like me.
Bill L
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Oct 4, 2005 23:04:57 GMT -5
when the President of the U.S. starts publicly floating the idea that maybe the MILITARY ought to be first responders to a local crisis and you add this to the already creeping disappearance of rights and privileges because of another "crisis", it is time to open the eyes and start to take action. National Socialism, Volume II, is right around the corner, don't you know ... Somewhere in the middle pages of this thread I posted comments after reading an article about "the US military, not the national guard, was practicing maneuvers in Colorado to deal with domestic issues. For the first time in history their training was geared toward American domestic control." Drat the help they're getting from Mother Nature, and just wait til that damn bird flu gets here.
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Oct 4, 2005 23:32:59 GMT -5
So I'm guessing that you agree with me that this administration shouldn't have taken any heat for their efforts after Katrina? It's been my feeling that they took a bunch of crap for reacting in the way every administration has always reacted. Suddenly, I'm guessing it's because of the loathing of W, they didn't act quickly enough. Just in case you're actually serious Bill, wrong again. There was a time in the not so distant past that we had a functioning FEMA (and a functioning FEMA director ;D), a functioning CIA, FBI, a protective Federal Government...ect. They proved their worth disaster after disaster for decades. Where were you? Now it's all lumped into a huge cluster fuck called Homeland Security that is the most inept "committee" I believe I've ever witnessed. Hell, If I tried to start a serious business by hiring all of my buddies it probably wouldn't work either.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Hays on Oct 5, 2005 10:16:49 GMT -5
Mr President Billy Sir ... are you sure that Belgium is not really the place where Osama bin Laden (with false mustache and a pair of Groucho Marx glasses) has been taken by the CIA, as part of the witness relocation program, to serve as head of the Belgian Brewers Production Board? I'd be careful about fessing up to what was in my liquor cabinets, if I were you.
I agree, in principle, with your thoughts. If the neo-cons are going to use New Orleans as a tapestry upon which to weave their privatization dreams (what did I read today? oh yeah ... abolish all labor laws, prohibit unions, establish school vouchers, eliminate direct government aid and provide assistance through faith-based charities, etc.), then when this entire flock of cronies in DC collapses of its own weight into the muck and slime of corruption, we can rebuild a union that bases power locally and protects national unity (and justice and the American way) with a federal blanket. That would be a light, flannel blanket, by the way.
I love how the Democrats, who once supported the war in Iraq, are making themselves dizzy with the spin of how to jump on the anti-war bandwagon now (even as we keep hearing the internal rumblings and posturings and trial balloons about regime change in Syria, Israeli raids on Irani nuclear power sites, or even a U.S. invasion of Iran). I also love their gleeful fingerpointing at DeLay (et al), even as they cross the other finger behind their back while holding out their fat little hands for more cash from their favorite cows. And I find it amazing that all the gnashing and fingerpointing and gleeful chortles in no way whatsoever find a way to formulate, mouth (or even copy) some kind of platform that truly represents change and a way out of this morass.
I'm with you ... it's almost time declare myself independent
I do think this administration deserves all the heat it gets for its unconscionable dismissal of the problems in New Orleans. This is the Administration that has declared a War on Terrorism, and has gleefully reorganized every agency and department and bureaucratic organization that has any kind of conceivable connection (no matter how farfetched) to being prepared for the "next disaster" -- barking at the edges of reducing my rights to privacy, speech and a fair and speedy trial in this country (not to mention related assurances as they relate to reasonable search and seizure, arrest and detainment, wire tapping, checking into my library habits and internet connections, and monitoring my purchasing patterns), and basically eliminating any human rights of people detained as "enemy combatants" -- not "prisoners of war" (thanks to the current Attorney General ... how is it that we got two such lovely attorney generals in a row) -- who could be just about anyone our government labels as a "terrorist" (or "suspected" terrorist) -- and then it is TOTALLY unprepared to deal with a major disaster when it does come (and doesn't even give a rat's ass, until provoked by overwhelming national outrage); in fact, not only is it not prepared, but the leaders would prefer a round of gold or a new pair of shoes to actually trying to DO something about helping people drowning in the streets of an American city.
They think government is bad, and -- like their unelected spiritual leader (Grover Norquist) -- they want to shrink it in size so they can drown it in the bathtub. What better way to do that than (1) make every part of the government essentially inoperative and ineffective, (2) give tax breaks, incentives and lucrative contracts to your cronies, and (3) spend whatever money does come in on an interesting hobby (the war in Iraq) or in rewarding more contracts.
Seriously, though (not that the above comments don't seriously explain my feelings about the criminals currently in charge of our country) ... the national government is not in charge of saving people from disasters, per se; nor is it responsible for minimizing the cost of recovering from a disaster. I will get to what I think those responsibilities are in a minute, but first, I need to say that people need to be responsible for their own safety and well-being first, and worry about everything else after the fact. Hell, we once had a winter storm in the little settlement of Coffee Creek (which was 50 miles up a winding mountain road from the closest metropolis of Weaverville -- the county seat with a population of 2500) that cut us off from the outside world for six days (no power, no gasoline, no incoming food supplies -- though we did have all the water we needed). We had another flood event (New Year's morning, 1997) that cut all the roads (three of them, and two of them were the north-south highway through town) into and out of Coffee Creek for eight days. There were no helicopters picking us off our roofs and no knight in shining armor come to rescue us. We were on our own. And we did okay. One fellow drowned who thought he could wade across the creek that had washed out a bridge, and one woman died of a heart attack. But most of us were prepared for inclement weather and isolation; those that weren't, we took care of. In the case of the flood, I had moved my car up the hill, but then it was not accessible to get me out; a neighbor knocked on the window and put us in his truck, but the engine flooded and wouldn't start. However, a county road maintenance truck (local workers kept their trucks at their homes) came up the road and picked us all up, then transported us to the Forest Service compound where they broke out emergency sleeping bags and put us up for the night. Everyone thusly "rescued" (there were about ten of us, plus dogs) found a friend with whom to stay the next day. In short, we took care of ourselves
But the federal government DOES have a roll, and could have a roll. Its various agencies should be working WITH local agencies to put contingency plans into place, then provide whatever resources are necessary to make sure they work. In short, each individual is first responsible for themselves. Then, each neighborhood and community should have plans in place (plans that actually work) to assist people in time of need with an escape/evacuation route or transport, and a place to stay, because no matter how well-prepared you are, shit happens and things don't always work according to plan. Then, each state needs to serve as an umbrella facilitator and backup support network for each local community. And the federal government then coordinates and supports regional assistance. Take the story of the 10,000 pounds of ice that were sent to New Orleans. Assuming that the plan to get it there was actually well-conceived and in place BEFORE the storm hit (and people knew where to store it and how to distribute it, etc.), then there would be NO ONE ELSE CAPABLE OF BRINGING THAT MUCH ICE FROM OUTSIDE THE REGION (because ability to make that much ice, let alone transport it over broken and flooded roads was lost to the local regional powers that be) besides the Feds.
It wouldn't have to be the army. It wouldn't have to be a specially designated U.S. government vehicle or employee. It's just that FEMA (just as it should have been prepared to do if a dirty atom bomb had been dropped on New Orleans instead of a hurricane) would have had contracts in place ... or at least the power to issue contracts (and clear guidelines and authority limiting the terms of said contracts) ... with private companies, truckers, and storage warehouses. That is what is meant by "emergency preparedness". The same applies to all contingencies (including the ones I don't have time to outline here), and the federal government is prepared to backup and support all local efforts. Then, once the emergency has passed and the cleanup completed, the other part kicks in ... FEMA offered Helen and I, through the Small Business Association, a low interest loan to help repair and rebuild the things that the scandal-ridden, dirty dog jackal insurance companies wouldn't cover. Again, few local municipalities, local governments, or even state governments have the resources to guarantee such loans, so it is a natural role for the federal government to take on.
In all of these things, this government failed badly. It failed to turn on the human night light of compassion, if nothing else, until the absence of anyone in power became painfully obvious. But it also failed because it does not believe the national government has a legitimate role to play. Worse than that, it failed because it seems to believe that the only role the federal government can play is to reward its supporters. And ... to hammer (can't avoid those DeLay metaphors) the final nail into the coffin of the worst pack of rascals this country has ever suppposedly elected into office (and that, too, was a lie) -- their bottom line battle cry of "Privatization" failed miserably! Private enterprise and private mobilization of support and relief is almost as non-existent as the "Let-them-eat-cake" Bushites.
|
|
|
Post by Scott Hays on Oct 5, 2005 11:49:06 GMT -5
Just read this in the paper today. Yesterday, while answering questions of the press in the Rose Garden (the first time he has done so, incidentally, in four years), the President suggested that he might consider using the military to quarantine parts of the country if an avian-flu epidemic broke out. This is not coming from some mouthpiece (ok, I know some cynics in this discussion think the President IS a mouthpiece), but from the horse's mouth itself.
So why do you think this administration is so incessant on finding ways to introduce a domestic use for our armed forces into the discussion?
|
|
BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
|
Post by BillL on Oct 5, 2005 12:47:00 GMT -5
So why do you think this administration is so incessant on finding ways to introduce a domestic use for our armed forces into the discussion?Because of rabel-rousers like us, maybe? Seriously, though, I think it's crazy for Bush to use military troops locally (baring a serious attack, of course) and I would be remiss if I didn't publically agree with you on that. I still say that it's impossible to call this administration criminals while not extending that sentiment to previous administrations is disengenuous at best (with the possible exception of the Carter Adminstration). Bill L -->Who still thinks our government is bloated beyond hope. Your not entitled to anything except the freedom to make your own decisions (and the consequences of said decisions). -->Don't you ever mention my Belgian Beers in a negative manner again...EVER!!!!!!! And I just decriminalized prostitution and gateway drugs. Next I'll be decriminalizing the sodomy laws in an effort to steal the porn making business from Van Nyes and the San Fernando Valley areas. I'm looking for a boom mic operator...if anyone is interested, please send me your resume.
|
|
|
Post by Little Feat on Oct 5, 2005 13:03:29 GMT -5
Just read this in the paper today. Yesterday, while answering questions of the press in the Rose Garden (the first time he has done so, incidentally, in four years), the President suggested that he might consider using the military to quarantine parts of the country if an avian-flu epidemic broke out. This is not coming from some mouthpiece (ok, I know some cynics in this discussion think the President IS a mouthpiece), but from the horse's mouth itself. So why do you think this administration is so incessant on finding ways to introduce a domestic use for our armed forces into the discussion? Nuff said...
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Oct 5, 2005 13:22:00 GMT -5
I still say that it's impossible to call this administration criminals while not extending that sentiment to previous administrations is disengenuous at best (with the possible exception of the Carter Adminstration). Bill L Well dang Bill...why didn't you tell us earlier that there had been other corrupt administrations? ;D Now, when I'm living in an Aristocratic and Policed Nation, I'll take great comfort in knowing that there were other corrupt administrations. If I read you correctly tho, you do agree that this administration is corrupt...right?
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Oct 5, 2005 13:28:28 GMT -5
Nuff said... And they want us to believe this guy can use a chainsaw?! ;D
|
|
BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
|
Post by BillL on Oct 5, 2005 17:58:04 GMT -5
Well, the photoshopped image not withstanding, I would venture to say that yes, every adminstration is corupt in one way or another (some more than others). Show me where I said otherwise. However, my previous comments should show that I think that this administration is no more corupt than many before. I would submit that it is no more corupt than Clinton's. Of course, most of you will disagree and I've been told I can't bring up other administrations to prove a point, so I guess I lose.
Bill L
Finally, the NHL is back. And while I'm still on the fence of the stupid new rule changes, at least I can watch a real sport for a change.
Game On !!!
Hockey the offical national sport of Billy World
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Oct 5, 2005 18:36:11 GMT -5
However, my previous comments should show that I think that this administration is no more corupt than many before. I would submit that it is no more corupt than Clinton's. Bill L Billy World What's your point? The main topics here are ruthless greed from dangerously drunk with power, thieves that are trying to drastically steal what easily obtainable future I had envisioned for my children and grand children as well as yours. I still don't think we have to just stand by and watch. Yes Bill, every "regime" has in some way been corrupt no doubt. And has probably caused much pain and aggravation. I don't think anyone has argued that point with you. But the problem now is that we have run into an administration that not only is willing, but eager to cash us in. I know it sounds absurd, but these are absurd "leaders" that have created absurd situations.
|
|
BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
|
Post by BillL on Oct 5, 2005 19:31:27 GMT -5
Yes Bill, every "regime" has in some way been corrupt no doubt. And has probably caused much pain and aggravation. I don't think anyone has argued that point with you.
But the problem now is that we have run into an administration that not only is willing, but eager to cash us in. I know it sounds absurd, but these are absurd "leaders" that have created absurd situations.
So your basically just voicing your concern now and it's no big deal when "your side" does it. I've got it now. And in case your still reading, I've stated publically here that if it's proven that this administration is corupt in the way that you and Scott have laid out then I will join you in asking for whoever the accused is to resign. Having said that, with mild exception, our current President is as smart as the last President in having others take the fall regardless of where the blame lies. The exception being that unfortunate incedent in the pantry.
Bill L
|
|
|
Post by Mike on Oct 5, 2005 20:10:04 GMT -5
The exception being that unfortunate incedent in the pantry. Bill L If you're talking about "The BJ", I just can't bring myself to allude to "a BJ" being unfortunate. ;D Sorry. If that's not what you're talking about..well...how embarrassing for me?. And BTW, I guess it wasn't "proven" that OJ Simpson was guilty but...
|
|