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Post by Mike on Sept 27, 2005 18:05:32 GMT -5
Even if I don't know what I'm talking about most of the time - chadgumbo Fortunately for all of us...that's not required. ;D That's why I try to stick with "opinion's".
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Post by Tipi on Sept 27, 2005 21:35:36 GMT -5
Tipi - If I read this book Friends in High Places am I then going to feel compelled to stop speaking out of my arse? ;D I don't know what I'd do if I didn't have all my message board friends to shoot the breeze with. Even if I don't know what I'm talking about most of the time - chadgumbo Not at all! In my case, it makes me feel absolutely justified, ney, rightous when speaking out of my arse! In truth, I just thought you would find it interesting. I know it's out of context for me to post without seeming to giggle ... so give me a minute ... while I imagine Scarlett at massage school ... hehehehe ahhh that's better. Let me know when you're certified darlin'! T (hehe)
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Post by Mike on Sept 29, 2005 8:54:56 GMT -5
Here's sump'n to giggle about. One down and so many to go... Notice how quiet Delay has been for the last few months? I'm in Austin for a couple of daze and the whole town is buzzing and about to have a parade about "The Hammer's" indictment. Seems Tom Delay has finally stepped on his.... "House Majority Leader Tom Delay was indicted by a Texas grand jury forcing him to step down from his leadership ;D post and putting republicans on the defense yet again over Delay's ethics. Delay called the indictment 'blatant political partisanship' and termed Travis County (Austin) prosecutor Ronnie Earle, who convened the grand jury, 'a rogue district attorney'. It's been true from kindergarten...when people get enough of your bullying they will eventually turn on your sorry ass and make you pay. Pay up "Hammer"!!!
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Post by featphoto on Sept 29, 2005 12:57:29 GMT -5
It's been true from kindergarten...when people get enough of your bullying they will eventually turn on your sorry ass and make you pay. Pay up "Hammer"!!! as the song says: the people you misuse on the way up, you might meet up on the way down ain't it the truth?
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Post by Scott Hays on Sept 29, 2005 13:24:20 GMT -5
Tom DeLay may be a big cheese (and his goat is cooked), but if you start looking at the connections and start to connect the dots, a larger pattern begins to emerge. Yes, each of these really clever guys with really clever lawyers can present arguments and legal-looking paper trails that serve to sever the connections between them (worst case scenario, they just "forget") ... but how many coincidences is it going to take before people realize the Hammer is bigger than it looks.
Remember, I said -- just a few posts back -- that this is THE MOST CORRUPT administration in my lifetime. No one has chosen to refute that claim (Bill ... Mark ...?). In case you are still doubtful, here are just a few coincidences to ponder ...
Gee ... let's see ... DeLay's "associates" funnel corporate contributions to a DC PAC ("Friends for a Republican Majority") established by DeLay and nominally headed by him, then send the money back to seven candidates for office in Texas ... texas democrats hide out in Oklahoma while a quorum is being sought to redistrict texas by republican rules ... DeLay attempts to intimidate the FAA into hunting the democrats down (and is slapped on the wrist by the House Ethics Committee for doing so)
... DeLay takes golfing vacations.
Hmmm, here's one ... over New Year's of 1997, DeLay, his family and staff travelled on a scholarship endowed by the government of the Marianna Islands (a territory of the U.S.) to study living and working conditions in the territory. Most of his time was spent golfing and scuba diving. Coincidentally, a bill had unanimously just passed in the U.S. Senate to set minimum wage rules in the Marianas similar to those in the U.S. The bill, proposed by Republican Senator Frank Murkowski of Alasks (now governor of Alaska and so conservative he receivd zero ratings from the AFL-CIO and Americans for Democratic Action, and 100 ratings from the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and the American Conservative Union) -- who was incensed at the sweatship conditions endured by immigrant workers in the plants of the Gap, Tommy Hilfiger, and Calvin Klein so the products could carry a "Made in the USA" label -- was designed to end twelve hour work days and life behind barbed wire in squalid shacks minus plumbing.
The trip was arranged by the lobbyist representing the government of the Mariannas ... Jack Abramoff.
DeLay also took three trips that involved golfing between 1997 and 2000 that were also funded (and arranged) by Jack Abramoff, though all were funded through different "not-for-profit" organizations. The National Center for Public Policy Research funded a six-day trip to Russia and a three-day trip to London and Scotland, and a strange Bahamian registered company paid for a trip to Korea and part of the trip to Moscow.
Clearly, there is some historical connection to Jack Abramoff. What do we know about the fellow who is currently under indictment for wire-fraud and obstruction of justice in Florida? Well ... he founded the "Capitol Athletic Foundation" (ostensibly to purchase sporting equipment, provide sports programs and leadership training for city youth), which was publicly supported by Tom DeLay (a contribution to this charitable cause gains you access to Delay). It was in fact a laundering scheme designed to funnel more than $140,000 to Israeli settlers in the occupied territories for purchase of such sporting equipment as sniper scopes, night-vision binoculars, camouflage suits, thermal imagers and other "security" equipment. One group donated $25,000. Due to testimony in other cases, it was the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Nation, another client of Abramoff, attempting to gain political leverage in support of casino development. Some of the money in CAF went to the creation of Christian anti-gambling groups that created phone banks to stir up opposition to Indian tribes that had proposed competing casinos in the same area as the Chippewa (I get a call at night from Christians Against Gambling, urging me to write my Congressman about upcoming legislation to a approve a Choctaw casino in Florida) ...
... connected to the Indian gaming and Israeli arms deal as a business partner of Jack Abramoff is one Michael Scanlon, former spokesman for ... Tom DeLay ...
Receiving $4 million from Abramoff & Scanlon -- in a campaign to oppose gambling in the south (hmmm) is one Ralph Reed -- somewhat famous as the former Executive Director of the Christian Coalition. Now running for Governor of Georgia, he claims he does not know where the $4 million came from, but records indicate he knew at least some of it was coming from casino rich Choctaw Indians ...
Three associates of Abramoff & Scanlon were called to testify in front of John McCain's Senate Indian Affairs Committee, but cited Fifth Amendment privileges. They were Kevin Ring (lobbyist for the Choctaw Nation), Shawn Vassell (a lobbyist for Abramoff), and Brian Mann (Director of the American International Center). All had one thing in common besides connections to Abramoff ... all had served as congressional aides to ... Tom DeLay
... the AIC, established by Scanlon in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware, describes itself on its website as a "premiere international think tank". Mann, its director, was a yoga instructor before becoming a person capable of "influencing global paradigms in an increasingly complex world". His partner is Brian Grosh, former lifeguard and lifetime beach buddy of Scanlon ...
... other funds received by Reed came from Americans for Tax Reform, headed by Grover Norquist. Abramoff, Norquist and Reed are all old college buddies and worked together to charter Young Republican chapters at American Universities.
Here's another player in the recent rash of arrests and indictments ... David Safavian. He is the first member of this Administration to be arrested and indicted. His crime? Lying and obstructing justice into the investigation of ... Jack Abramoff. It seems he (Safavian) was one of the folks Abramoff took to Scotland to play golf ... along with Ralph Reed
Safavian worked, early in his career, as a lobbyist for Abramoff ... He represented the government of Pakistan on matters related to the sales of military equipment. He represented the Islamic Institute in an effort to create a postage stamp commemorating Ramadan. He also represented the Commonwealth of Northern Mariana Islands in an effort to block imposition of minimum wage rules (hmmm ... have we seen that before?). After leaving Abramoff, he founded an independent lobbying firm, Janus-Merritt Strategies, with Grover Norquist as his partner.
In that capacity, Safavian served as a lobbyist for foreign clients before being appointed by George W. Bush to head, first, the General Services Administration (GSA), and then the Office of Management and Budget. Some of his clients in that firm had links to terrorist organizations. One, Abdurahman Alamoudi, has been convicted and imprisoned for accepting money from the Libyan government to assassinate the crown prince of Saudi Arabia. Another client was Jamal Barzinji, has been identified as the director of a program in Virginia controlled by Hezbollah.
In addition, Safavian's wife, Jennifer Safavian, is the chief counsel for oversight and investigation at the House Committee of Government Reform, which oversees federal procurement policy matters.
Finally, it is Safavian's agency that awards contracts for reconstruction ... in Iraq and in the Gulf Coast. It was to Safavian's office that Bunnatine Greenhouse ... a whistleblower at the Army Corps of Engineers ... first raised questions about missing funds and gross financial misreporting by Haliburton in Iraq. She has since been terminated!
Another person on the golfing trip to Scotland financed by Abramoff was Representative Bob Ney (R-Ohio), Chair of the House Administration Committee. He was given $32,000 in 2002 by the Tigua Tribe of Texas ... just days after he proposed legislation designed to help them reopen a casino (hmmm, more Indian casinos) that had been closed. The Tigua Tribe was a client of ... Jack Abramoff. Early in 2002, Abramoff had hired Ney's chief of staff -- Neil Volz -- to represent the Tigua in Congress. Volz also went on that golfing trip. With Volz came a major contributor to Ney's political career, Adam Kidan. Kidan had purchased a Florida-based gambling cruise line (Suncruz) in 2000, after Ney had inserted statements critical of the line's previous owner -- Gus Boulis -- into the Congressional Record. That man was later killed in a gangland-style murder in Fort Lauderdale. Who was Kidan's partner in the purchase of Suncruz? ... Jack Abramoff.
Meanwhile, Ney claimed that the trip to Scotland had been payed by a conservative think-tank (the National Center for Public Policy Research) to address the Scottish Parliament. Parliament was not in session at the time of the trip. Ney now claims he did not give a "formal" speech ... he just met privately with several members of Parliament.
Safavian, meanwhile, filed papers identifying Abramoff as the funder for the trip. According to his claim, Abramoff had no business before the GSA (which Safavian had once chaired), so therefore there was no conflict of interest. But Abramoff DID have a deal before the GSA ... he was attempting to lease vacated federal land in Silver Springs, Maryland, for a Jewish College.
The National Center for Public Policy Research, meanwhile, opposed research into global warming, and actively organized resistance to the Kyoto Protocols (issued an "Earth Summit Fact Sheet" and acted as a source for anti-treaty quotes to the media through a "free interview locater service"), uses the rhetoric of anti-terrorism to attack environmentalists (who have organized what it calls a "jihad" against American corporations). Not surprisingly, the NCPPR is primarily funded through tax-deductible contributions of Mobile/Exxon, Standard Oil and BP. It was NCPPR that funded Tom DeLay's 1997 trip to Moscow and the 2000 trip to London and Scotland. At the time, a member of the Board of Directors of NCPPR was ... Jack Abramoff
Okay ... there's more, but this loop is never ending and I have to do something productive.
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Post by Mike on Sept 30, 2005 11:57:45 GMT -5
At least there are no reports of anyone getting a BJ! From the AP 9/29/05: "FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. Two of the three men charged with the mob-style killing of a businessman a few months ago after he sold a fleet of casino boats to Washington lobbyist Jack Abramhoff were ordered held without bond Wednesday. 'Gus' Boulis, 51, founder of the Miami Subs sandwich chain and SunCruz Casinos gambilng fleet, was shot to death at the wheel of his car by an assailant who had pulled alongside. Boulis was killed in the midst of a bitter dispute over SunCruz, which he had sold to Abramhoff and New York businessman Adam Kidan. Abramhoff and Kidan are charged in separate, six count federate indictment with fraud in connection with the SunCruz deal. Police say additional arrest are possible in the slaying. Abramhoff was once ;D a close associate of Rep. Tom Delay, R-Sugar Land (Houston), who temporarily stepped aside as House majority leader following his indictment Wednesday in Texas on a charge of conspiring to violate political fund raising laws. Abramhoff also raised raised thousands of dollars for President Bush's re-election campaign and for GOP congressional candidates. In addition, Abramhoff is under investigation in Washington for lobbying activities on behalf of Indian tribes and for his role in paying for overseas trips for Delay. Delay has denied knowing that any expenses were paid by Abramhoff, whom he once described as 'one of my closest and dearest friends'." Abramhoff is not only a "dear friend" of Delay, but he is a "dear friend" of the whole conservative movement here in Texas ( and everywhere it has spread to like a bad virus!)
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BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
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Post by BillL on Oct 2, 2005 12:41:51 GMT -5
Delay has denied knowing that any expenses were paid by Abramhoff, whom he once described as 'one of my closest and dearest friends'."
Abramhoff is not only a "dear friend" of Delay, but he is a "dear friend" of the whole conservative movement here in Texas ( and everywhere it has spread to like a bad virus!)
Vince Foster anyone? Or maybe Ron Brown? Or maybe, just maybe, coincedence? Or possible just happenstance? Nope, it's got to be a vast _____ conspiracy. Afterall, the left has nothing to hide (not like the dastardly right).
Bill L
Bill L
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BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
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Post by BillL on Oct 2, 2005 12:43:59 GMT -5
Hank says: as the song says: the people you misuse on the way up, you might meet up on the way down
As long as you don't say dudes. Lowell would NEVER talk like that. And I happen to know someone that knows that Lowell would never talk like that, dude.
Bill L
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Post by Mike on Oct 2, 2005 13:23:57 GMT -5
Vince Foster anyone? Or maybe Ron Brown? Or maybe, just maybe, coincedence? Or possible just happenstance? Nope, it's got to be a vast _____ conspiracy. Afterall, the left has nothing to hide (not like the dastardly right). Bill L Bill L I think Monika Lewinski had Vince Foster killed. ;D Just kidding. Everybody has crap to hide. This "left" & "right" business only began to rear it's ugly head around the Reagan and Daddy B era's, so it hasn't actually been around that long. It has acted as a huge wedge between the common population of the former USA. Words that began to be bantered about repeatedly until they became the perfect tools for manipulation. I heard a new one recently. "The Bitch in the Ditch."
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Post by Scott Hays on Oct 2, 2005 14:37:15 GMT -5
Yep ... everyone's got something to hide. Some hide how they use power for personal gain, some hide how they use power to help their friends. Some are able to do this under the radar of even the most vigilant watchdogs (which is why we need watchdogs), some do it while the watchdogs are looking the other way, some do it with the tacit approval of their masters, and some who do it are the masters or watchdogs (leading to the infamous question of "who watches the watchers?").
Saying that everyone does it does not dismiss the abuse of power, and conscientious citizens must stand guard against everyone they entrust with that power.
I don't really want to get into an argument about who is the biggest liar, as that is a lose-lose type of argument. I also don't want to get into an argument about the relative harm of different types of lies (I never had sex with that woman vs. Saddam Hussein poses an imminent threat to the U.S.of A.). But I do want ... once again ... to bring up the issue of corruption and the power of money to buy and sell favors from those in power. This is the dangerous precipice that both of the political parties in this country have led us to -- corporations (mythically granted the rights of individual citizens) are blessed with the right to the free expression of spending money in any amount and for any purpose that they desire, which leads us to a place where it costs so much more and more money to run for almost any elected office that the notion of a "citizen democracy" or a "citizen legislature" is almost as extinct a notion as the Dodo!
My point is the cronyism, favoritism and insider-ism ... brought to us in escalating increments by the party of "little government" ... is almost exclusively responsible for 35% voter turn-outs, and lack of citizen participation encourages more inbreeding of the cronyism. The DeLay, Norquist, Abromoff, Safavian, Ney syndicate is only the tip of the iceberg. And the Dems are no more saintly in the race for power.
But there is something insidiously evil and undemocratic about the current band of looters residing in the White House and occupying the halls of power across this land. The long trail of deception should be the first clue ...
Just in education (my primary area of interest), the Bush administration violated the law by buying favorable news coverage of "his" education policies (actually, the educational policies of a number of key players just under the surface, since "C" student Shrub has no original thoughts or ideas of his own) by making payments to the conservative commentator Armstrong Williams and by hiring a public relations company to analyze media perceptions of the Republican Party. Stitch that together with the deceit regarding the Texas "miracle", precursor to NCLB, that launched Rod Paige into the role of Secretary of Education (by hiding the drop-outs and elevating the percentage of students who were graduating, thus making the test-and-punish "accountability system" look promising), and a national policy affecting every child in this country for at least seven years is in place. To us old farts, seven years is not a very long time. It's a LONNNNNG time to a 15-year old!
Then there's the whole business of mythical wmd, manufactured to prop up a war against terrorists who actually existed in another country, the blatant use of false information to support a shaky claim about an effort to develop atomic weapons (including the dirty-tricks deal of smearing the name of the messenger), the growth of warlordism and opium production in Afghanistan while the real terrorist plays the organ in his plush mountain hideout, the escalation of tension with Iran and the uncertainty about whether a second front is going to soon open in the Middle East ... all done in the neo-con effort to strengthen the American Empire at any cost.
What about Kyoto and the ongoing manipulation of data to to confuse and bewilder an essentially ignorant American public (hey ... we are truly one of the least scientifically literate countries on the face of the earth, and don't even have such workable substitutes to fall back on to explain the workings of the world like holistic understandings of plant and animal characteristics and behaviors ... no, we have an intelligent designer who poses no naturally testable hypotheses, but instead further confuses young people in their effort to answer the large questions of life, the universe and everything while simultaneously reinforcing the power-broker mentality of an authoritarian, absolutist ruler whose will cannot be challenged or questioned) who now doesn't know what to make of increased hurricane activity or 1/3 of the Polar ice cap gone[/i] in under thirty years, but certainly doesn't want to give up the SUV or the air conditioner, either.
Oh, this administration leads us around the nose by numbers. It has single-handedly made the profession "statistician" the most feared and important position around (with "economist" coming in a close second -- have you noticed how all the studies about the lack of effectiveness of America's public schools are all conducted by economists? ... and do you remember where Monty Python put "economists" in the hierarchy of important people?) because a good statistician can prove anything with numbers.
Bill Bennett, despite his "out-of-context" remarks about blacks and the crime rate (or was it blacks and abortion ... since he has managed to successfully muddle that issue in just a couple of hours), once visited the head of the FCC, who wanted to get his support -- as Secretary of Education -- for a bill proposed by two Republicans to fund electronic communications in all of America's schools; Bennett refused to give his approval because, as he said, he thought more funding and better technology might serve to make the public schools more successful, and he didn't want them to be successful because it would make his agenda of vouchers and privatization more difficult. His comments, though (since, fairly, he is not a part of this administration), come right on the heels of this adminstration's "let-them-eat-cake" approach to Hurricane Katrina and "those" people who would not/could not get out. You know ... well, I have to give a couple of speeches that were already scheduled and play a couple obligatory rounds of golf before I can give my attention to potential victims of hurricanes; I have to busy myself on my Montana ranch because life goes on; I have to shop for my $1000 shoes; and (maybe the best one of all) lucky it happened to them because they are so poor they are already used to a lot of hardship.
It's not that FEMA was slow (but look how fast it could get stuff done when the spotlight was already on it, like in Rita), it's not that communication between local, state and federal agencies or people broke down (which it did), it's not even a question of the rampant corruption and cronyism taking place in the early days of "reconstruction" (why did Carnival Cruises get a contract for three full-service ocean liners when Greece offered to supply similar ships for free?). It's the blatant disregard for crisis exhibited by those in a position of leadership, who hypocritically claim that every sacrifice we have had to make (money, "red-orange" days, travel, civil liberties, sons and daughters) was in the name of them becoming "ready" to meet the next disaster head-on.
And when it came, they were hiding in their cozy little nests built by favoritism, cronyism, being connected, and from abuse of power.
along with the racist response to disaster in New Orleans and the Gulf Coast and most recently former Education Secretary William Bennet's remarks about abortion and black people and you viscerally sense the corruption at the heart of this presidency of which NCLB is but one manifestation.
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Post by featphoto on Oct 2, 2005 17:40:00 GMT -5
oh, come on now ... Vince Foster? you're going to dredge that one up again after several investigations, including one by Ken Starr, the Republican's very own pitbull, concluded it was suicide? why don't we re-open Whitewater while we're at it ... oh, that's right, it was a Ken Starr show too and concluded that there was abso-fuckin-lutely no evidence that Bill or Hillary did anything wrongRepublican Greeks ... jeez ... <g>
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BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
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Post by BillL on Oct 3, 2005 9:52:00 GMT -5
Hank says: oh, come on now ... Vince Foster?I'm begging you to tell me you didn't fall for my trap. he also says: oh, that's right, it was a Ken Starr show too and concluded that there was abso-fuckin-lutely no evidence that Bill or Hillary did anything wrongI'm just hypothisizing (sp?) here, but I wonder if some on the other side of the isle will be as willing to drop it if Delay is found to have done nothing wrong. Oh, for the record, I think he probably is guilty of something but was probably smart enough to keep enough distance from him. Just like the folks in your example. Republican Greeks ... jeez ...I'll be sure to wear my "Greeks for Reagan Bush" pin from the '84 election at our next Lobsta Mafia bosses lunch. Bill L PS-Hank, you may want to reread my post. I'm pretty sure it shows the absurdity of the hypothesis that Delay (or Clinton) offed someone to protect themselves from prosecution. I wouldn't put it past either of them from thinking about it, but it would be a desperate man/woman that would actualy go through with it.
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Post by Scott Hays on Oct 3, 2005 16:59:53 GMT -5
Okay ... I have way too much time on my hands (but that is all about to change, again). Here comes another long post but on the same general topic ...
I am sure there are plenty on the dem side of the aisle that would be more than willing to drop anything against delay that might create some type of uproar about corporate manipulation of the electoral process (just about every step of the process, as far as I can tell), if only because they are so entangled in the slimey web of cash flow that they might find their bubble bursting, too, if some crusader on a white horse with a lot of public appeal comes along and actually tries to do something about it (no incumbent can "do anything about it" without commiting political suicide, and the media -- part of the corporate world, itself -- isn't going to provide undo coverage unless the crusader already has a lot of pizzazz and chutzpah ... not to mention a pretty big flock of loyal fans to begin with), but there is only one rub -- tom delay is not a very likeable person, especially if you are on the short end of his hammer; he's a good 'ole boy in the grand tradition, with an infinite capacity to "get even".
But this all begs the question.
Here's two more issues that appeared in my local paper today, both apparently disconnected ... one global, one local (but with global implications, if the ever so wonderful media would connect the dots for us) ... that are quietly taking place under this Administration's watch.
(1) The price of gas and gasoline products is not just rising in the U.S., but all over the world. This has led to strikes by truck drivers and farmers in France, riots in the streets of Nairobi, and increasing protests in major cities all over the place. In many countries, the price of gasoline is kept down because the government pays a huge hunk of the price to the wholesalers -- in some countries, this has quietly assumed about 1/3 of the national budget, which is leading those countries to charge more to the people in the street. The increase isn't as dramatic as in other countries (like the U.S.), but usually in those countries the common folk don't have a whole lot of money, and a $25 fill up represents a week's wages. Not only that, but the national treasury is rapidly declining, and several nations (that is, entire countries) are teetering toward bankruptcy. In the European countries (and in China and Russia), the government charges hefty taxes for gasoline ... and that is a primary source of national income ... so the price is escalating pretty rapidly, and some countries (Poland and Hungary) have eliminated or reduced the tax. This, in turn, has put pressure on other members of the ECU to do the same. While the "anti-tax" crowd in this country (refer back to my last post regarding Grover Norquist) would never allow such a thing, the one positive outcome of those gas taxes is the almost exclusive reliance of the general public on cars that don't use a lot -- fuel efficiency is an important matter in Europe (and ... in a related issue ... available because there is a demand, which belies the argument of car manufacturer's and the laissez-faire folk of this country who don't like regulation and continue to produce gas guzzlers). This is one of the reasons we are held in low esteem in Europe; they have absolutely no sympathy for the cost we must pay for gasoline, because we continue to relish hogs (other reasons happen to have something to do with arrogance and bullying).
So ... countries that subsidize gas prices are going broke, and have to raise the prices to preserve a national treasury. Countries that tax gas for their income are becoming obscenely rich, but their people are growing increasingly upset because they aren't (growing obscenely rich, that is) ... and in fact (sound familiar?), the job market is pretty depressed in all those places, too. The only other segment of society that is growing obscenely rich? Yup ... the multinational petroleum industries.
Now, ultimately, we will hit a time when this crunch will be for real ... that is, when there really IS a gas shortage because there just isn't anymore in the ground. If people are rioting and getting pissed off now, at a time when the supply is merely being manipulated (like the "electricity" was manipulated in California in 2000), just think what will happen to the world as we know it when the crisis is real?
But what do you think Shrub's oil-producing buddies are telling him to do? Oh yeah, that is "privileged information" (much as Dick Cheney's task force to design our current energy policy was top secret). Do we have a leader who speaks for all the people? Or does he speak for what is in the best interests of only a few? Hmmm ...
(2) Portland, Oregon, used to supply water to everyone in the city of Portland, but it also has contracts with most surrounding municipalities to supply them, as well. The source of the water comes from Mt Hood, and PWD controls the spigot. Wilsonville, a small community between Salem and Portland, began to pump and purify water from the Willamette River three years ago. It no longer relies upon PWD for its water. This meant that PWD had to raise rates (never mind that it had fewer customers ... monopolies do not operate in a free market system). Now, other towns, townships and cities are threatening to do the same. This, in turn, puts more stress on the Willamette River. The Willamette is a dirty river. This means it costs more to purify it for human use. As local companies start up, the price for water increases. Meanwhile, the population is increasing rapidly, and the demand for water is also driving the price up. The price for water has just about tripled in the past thirty years, and it is going to continue to rise (more people, less supply, greater competition, more sophisticated technology etc.).
I can forsee a day when the only people who can have water are those rich enough to possess private property that still has some kind of water rights attached to it, or are rich enough that they can pay whatever the going price for water happens to be.
And this is Portland ... a region with quite a bit of available water.
I used to live in Carmel Valley, California. For those unfamiliar with California geography, this is central California, where there is quite a bit more water than in the desert of southern California. There are also fewer people in central California than in southern California, so the demand for water is slightly less (though more than in the Portland area).
It costs money to purchase a hookup to the Monterey Peninsula Water District, and there is a waiting list to get such a hookup. It is a long list. You have to purchase the hookup before you ever can have water delivered to your tap. If you want to add a bathroom to your house, you have to wait until a water credit comes available (a water credit equals about .25 acre feet of water), then purchase it for about $185. New construction ... which continues at an amazing rate ... can only take place if enough water credits exist on the property being developed. The politics of who can get these credits or how credits can be transferred from one property to another is an amazing tale of intrigue, pay-off, corruption and ... oh well, shrug, I am rich enough that I'll just pay whatever anyone asks. There is a big ranch in the Valley on which a local developer (the guy who writes most of the land use permits for the county, by the way ... hmmm) wants to build an ever decreasing number of deluxe high-end homes (the number keeps changing because he scales back after every rejection); he now lets the water run in a massive sprinkler that waters ... nothing .... so he can establish a large history of use. This in a place where water is rationed and you pay increasingly high per/gallon charges for usage.
I can tell a story about a local resort that drilled a well and took itself off of the California-America Water Company's service roll (Cal-Am ... a German Company that owns all the water on the Monterey Peninsula and in about 37% of all municipalities in the U.S., by the way) -- never mind that the well was drilled into the Carmel River Aquifer, the same aquifer from which Cal-Am draws all of its water -- then sold its 14 water credits to the highest bidder(s). They sold for $8,000 to $15,000 a credit.
Now, you tell me just who is going to be able to afford to purchase clean drinking water when a real drought strikes central California?
And what about in those places in the world where water is really scarce -- either in terms of volume or in terms of cleanliness?
Final question: We can understand why this Administration does little (if anything) to reduce dependence on oil (of any kind) and, instead, takes pride in developing a so-called energy policy that focuses on further development of oil resources; we can understand why this Administration seeks to reduce regulation/oversight/control of endangered species, clean air, pharmaceuticals, health insurance, and anything else related to the profit margin of its supporters; but why in the world is this Administration totally silent about the water supply of this nation -- issues like who owns it, how is it distributed, how is it protected and the like?
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BillL
Full Member
RIGHT ON !!!!
Posts: 172
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Post by BillL on Oct 3, 2005 17:24:59 GMT -5
In reply to Scott, I would be remiss if I didn't say that the water issue in Portland, OR should have nothng to do with the Federal Government. At best, it's a local issue...at worst it's a state issue. Any Fed intervention (based on what you've shared) would be a gross abuse of power (or whatever the correct governmental word should be).
Regarding your gas/petroleum comments...while lots of what you said is true, much of the inflated pricing can be directly linked to massive corruption in the countries that lead in it's production. Nigeria, Argentina, Russia (and that doesn't include the OPEC nations which have a huge roll in setting world prices)...we're not talking about corruption free economies here. Furthermore, I again say that that would be a gross misuse of the governments power. Of course, that's just l'il ole me in my tiny corner of the world.
An answer to your final question, because the Federal Government should back off and let local, state governments or municipalities decide what is best for them. And until they change the Constitution, we should really let local and state governments decide these issues as stated in said document. Power to the people, baby.
Bill L
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Post by Scott Hays on Oct 3, 2005 18:52:14 GMT -5
I only have two comments (whew says whoever might still be reading this thread): I mention water as an issue because, while it is a local issue, it is a local issue connected by dots all across the country. Whoever takes water out of the Willamette River (or puts stuff into it) is affected by "local" governments up and down the river. The same goes for every major water source in this country ... water drainages and watersheds don't abide by artificial boundaries established by human beings; most aquifers have been around for a long time (and are disappearing faster than you can say Tom DeLay), and they don't really care if it is a local property owner, a city, a state, or the federal government drawing from them, pumping stuff into them, passing laws affecting them, or ignoring those very same laws. And every community that I know of has some issue with water ... its quantity, iits movement, its purity (or lack thereof), its availability, its distribution. Thinking of water as a "local" issue is yet another example of the problem with "tradition" and traditionalists ... it binds us into corners unforseen by even the wisest of forefathers, and conservative efforts (as opposed to efforts at conservation) will not work. More importantly, the point I am trying to make is that every "leader" on our political scene is out to lunch when it comes to water issues. If anyone has anything to say about it (and believe me, there is one helluva lot of discussion/argument going on amongst all states comprising the drainage basin of the Colorado River, not to mention the government of the Republic of Mexico), it is all the tired old "private water righths" crap that worked in the desert environment back in the days when the population density was smaller than that of rattlesnakes and gila monsters but pales in comparison to the large urban centers the have grown in Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Utah and California and who all depend on that water. The President should be the leader of this public discussion, for god's sake ... and the national media should be pushing him towards it (since his politics shake in the boots at any idea of "sharing") ... but everyone is frighteningly silent -- which was my point. In my discussion of oil and petroleum issues ... my intention was not to somehow claim that all other countries are blameless and/or free of corruption ... that IS the human approach to power, and covering my ass is the second most important gut response of any politician, anywhere. No ... I had three points in mind: (1) anxiety and fear about gas prices is not exclusively an American issue, (2) really bad stuff is going to happen when the real crisis arrives, and (3) the oil companies are rubbing their hands gleefully over the escalating fear that drives prices ever upward, increasing their profit margin and allowing them to do what is inherent for all corporations to do -- WIN (doesn't even matter what it is that they are winning, or what the cost is to everyone else). The sad part of this is that, once again, this President comes down firmly on the side of corporations. I would say that the only read solution would be to dismantle and nationalize all these corporations ... but when a government like the one in which we now live (and might not survive) is in power, that would be the primary reason to not nationalize them. And then, I have only one more thing to say. A few days ago I posted a litany of "coincidences" in the overlapping activities of a few key men (DeLay, Abramoff, Safavian, Scanlon, Norquist, Ney) ... certain that most of what they did was not "illegal", but was morally repugnant (and, luckily for us, some of it actually may have been illegal and their little gambit is about to collapse). I will not post the entire article, but the London Observer (part of the Manchester Guardian, Unlimited -- about the finest newspaper in the world, incidentally) printed an interesting op-ed piece yesterday about this very subject. It's premise is that DeLay's indictment marks the end of the "K Street Project", a conspiracy (if you will) of neo-cons designed to make sure that every major lobbying firm employ nothing but Republicans, give financial support only to Republicans, build a strong Republican majority in Congress, and then reap the benefits of such an association through favorable legislation and policy. The entire article can be found at observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1582977,00.html ... and it takes about five minutes to read. Very enlightening. Sometimes it takes an outside view to see clearly.
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