To: Bill L
Okay, my 2 cents:
J:
I certainly agree that what this country is about is the free exchange of ideas. That is why it upsets me so much that when anyone disagrees with this administration they are branded as traitors
RM:
I think that is an exaggeration.
J:
(see but not limited to the title of that idiot Ann Coulter's new book),
RM:
Ann Coulter does not represent all conservative Americans
J:
or worst of all liberals.
RM:
Interesting how you think that being branded "Liberal" is worse than being called a traitor.
J:
I was not saying that supporters of this adminstration don't have a right to thier opinion but I can't for the life of me understand how they have come to this opinion.
RM:
"They" haven't, only some have.
J:
When you disgreed with me over the falling stock market I was not referring to the so-called tech bubble but recent developements in the stock market. Its falling
RM:
Huh? what chart are you looking at?
The DJIA is up about 11% in the past year
finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^DJI&t=1y&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=J:
and Allen Greenspan (a conservative) recently expressed concern over rising inflation.
RM:
As well he should. The Economy is overheating, shortages in Raw materials and energy have driven inflation up.
you RARELY see inflation in a bad economy.
J:
This is an economic recovery, don't think so.
RM:
Thats exactly what it is.
J:
As far as unemplyment and job creation we don't have to look up dept of labor stats, just look at the unemployment numbers;
RM:
Unemployment is at 5.6%. Dangerously close to the level reffered to as "full employment"
story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040604/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/economy_15PLEASE read this (a comparision of Clinton/Bush unemployment):
timblair.spleenville.com/archives/006086.phpRemember, there will always be some people that are between jobs and others who are simply unemployable (or refuse to be employed)
And before anyone says "yeah, but that doesn't include the people who have fallen off the list",, this is nothing new, it has ALWAYS been that way, and a lot of those people end up getting jobs, especially when the unemployment comp runs out.
But we use the unemployment rate as a barometer as to how the economy is doing. Also I would like to point out that employment is a "lagging indicator" ie, the Economy has to be doing well BEFORE companies start hiring.
So far in 2004, over 900,000 jobs have been added, and it will grow more. You con quote me on this and throw it back in my face if I am wrong.
J:
they are not at an all time low but are closing in on record high numbers.
RM:
Huh? please post a link that supports this theory.
J:
Would the president start a war to help big oil? I don't know and believe it or not I would hate to believe it.
RM:
This war is about
1. Oil. keep in mind what would happen to the World economy if a madman like Hussein were allowed to
have free reign over the middle east. He took over Kuwait and wold have kept going if we hadn't driven him back.
Saudi Arabia was the next stop, and he would have effectively controlled something like 60% of the Worlds oil.
2. Civil rights. There were NONE in Iraq. This guy was as bad as Hitler, no question about it. Its estimated that Hussien killed over 2 million of his own people during his rule.
3. WOMD-- They have found Sarin gas bombs and will find more. Also, how long would it have been until Hussein came up with a nuclear weapon? He was actively trying to obtain/build one.
J:
O.K. tax cuts. Everybody is for tax cuts. But there are tax cuts and there are toax cuts. First the conservative approach to tax cut to big business and the rich is based on trickle down economics.
RM:
Again, Huh? I'm solidly middle class and I got a check in the mail last year. How is this trickle down?
The more you pay the more the rebate, its that simple.
J:
Known by any reputable economist as vodoo economics.
RM:
Call it what ever you want, but its been done 4 times now (Coolidge, Kennedy, Reagan, GW Bush)
And it has worked every time. Reagan (god rest his soul) took an ENORMOUS amount of flak over it, but what few people seem to know or want to admit, is that he modeled his Economic policies after JFK's. JFK was in fact, socially liberal but fiscally very conservative. As far as "Big Business" presidents go, JFK was the biggest, (and richest) man ever to sit in the White House.
Tax cuts work because it stimulates economic growth. I don't care how rich or poor you are, but when the Government allows you to keep more of your own money, you do somelthing with it. You invest it or by stuff with it or whatever. the only way it WOULDN'T stimulate the Economy is if everyone stuffed it under the matress, but that just doens't happen.
Also, higher taxes do not necessarily mean higher revenue for the Government. It reaches a point of diminishing returns. See the "Laffer Curve":
www.investopedia.com/terms/l/laffercurve.aspJ:
To make a fair tax cut you have to take into acount more than who pays the most taxes; for example, disposible income. Also, the timing of the tax cut is most important. You can't have tax cuts in times of HUGE deficits.
RM:
Thats precisely when you SHOULD do it. The reason for the deficits was the poor economy. During the 80's and 90's we had unprecidented growth, and the deficit dryed up because of the huge revenue stream the Government had. As soon as we went into recession (March 2000) the deficits came back. The only real way to eliminate them is to stimulate the economy back to health.
J:
Why do people always concentrate on taxes when they should concentrate on government spending? The last few Republican adm. have spent like wildmen.
RM:
And Clinton didn't?
J:
In other words you have to cut spending BEFORE you cut taxes.
RM:
I can't disagree with that, I would like to see both done.
J:
Reagan, Bush 1, and Bush 2 have built the biggest deficits in history.
RM:
Reagan: he inherited an horrible recession. remember the
"Pain Index"?
But that was not the only reason for the deficits. He DID spend a lot. He knew that the only way to beat the Soviets in the Cold War was to outspend them. He knew that we could afford it and they couldn't. And he was right.
I hate to think of the consequences of that NOT happening.
The wall came down, and The Soviet Union dissolved. Along with winning WWII, this was probably the greatest achievement of the 20th Century, IMHO.
Bush 1: Recession in 91 caused deficits.
Bush II: recession in 2000 caused deficits (which I will point out, started in Clinton's admin)
J:
These deficits have taken more money out of poor and middle class people's pockets than taxes ever will.
How?
J:
War is hell. Amen brother. All wars are. That is why you have to be absolutely sure that you are justified when you go to war. Was Saddam a bad guy? Yes, that debate is long over. Was he a direct threat to our safety? There is no or at best very little evidence of that.
How much more evidence do you need other than 2 million dead and backing terrorists and possible WOMD?
Are we safer? I don't think so.
RM:
As bad as it may seem, the World is safer without Hussien and his cohorts. But the world will never be completely safe and where would it be without US??
J:
Do the Iraqi view us a liberators.
RM:
Who knows?
J:
The evidence points the other way.
RM:
What you rarely see is the footage of Iraqi citizens kissing the feet of soldiers for liberating them, and this has happened many times, but it doesn't fit with the Mainstream media's agenda.
J:
The liberal media. The biggest lie of all. Told so many times that it has become the accepted truth. How many middle class or poor people own radio, TV or newspaper orginazations?
RM:
What makes you think that only middle class and poor people are Liberal? Fact: There are more Rich liberals than rich conservatives.
96% of news people ADMIT to being liberal.
J:
How many liberals control the various means of information?
RM:
A LOT.
J:
Of all the so-called liberal newspeople how many are free to express thier liberal views without thier conservative owners reigning them in.
RM:
ALL OF THEM.
Come on dude, fox only slightly right leaning. Thier fair and balanced has become a running joke.
Says who? They may SEEM right wing, but only because we only have the rest of the media to compare them to.
J:
Now let's talk about Yak sh*te. I listen to Rush Limbaugh, the master of the false premise.
RM:
Rush is as bad as Michael Moore.
J:
But also I read George Will.
RM:
George Will is brilliant.
J:
Willian Safire, Mary Matlin, and other conservatives, I agree with them sometimes, o.k. not very often, but I do like to get a broad range of opinion and I respect thier opinon even when I disagree.
RM:
I'm glad to hear that. I would add P.J. O'Rourke to that list.
Funny, intelligent, and the classic example of Liberal at 20, conservative at 40. I HIGHLY reccomend reading anything he wrote.
J:
Abe Lincoln...My hero. I'm a conservative Republican. I just can't find any others. The republican party was founded on the idea of a small government and a civil rights issue.
RM:
Amen to that. Interesting note: the Republicans in congress passed the Civil Rights amendment in 1964, the largest opposition being 18 southern Democrat senators who were filibustering the issue.
J:
Now they're in bed with the religious right
RM:
The religious right are in bed with the Republicans, not necessarily the other way around.